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ASME's Mechanical Engine…ing Toolkit 1997 December
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conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #24791 07-09-88 22:01
from: TOM GALLETLY
to: ALL
subject: 1.4 MEG DISCS
I have installed a 1.44 Meg disc drive in my PC. I replaced the 720 3.5 in.
that I had been using. My problem is that I can't get the discs to format
at 1.44 Meg. I have change to parameters, and tried everything that I could
think of, but no luck. I can change the parameters back and format the
discs at 720 k. but at 1.44 I get the message Invalid media or bad track 0.
I am using Sony 2HD discs. Any ideas or help will be appreciated. Tom
Galletly
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #24792 07-09-88 23:03 (Read 179 times)
from: PHIL KATZ
to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 3.5" 1.4MEG FMAT Reply to #24783
cc: UWM COMPUTING
Joe,
FYI, I placed an order with MEI last week. The 3.5" DS DD disks in
bulk are on backorder, and they quoted me at least 10-12 weeks for
delivery. They do have name-brand 3.5" DS DD disks in stock, with
about $1.29/disk (in boxes of 10) being about the lowest price.
They currently have no plans for selling 3.5" HD disks in bulk
(at least that's what they told me), but they do sell name-brand
3.5" HD disks of course, with about $4.00 disk (in boxes of 10)
being the lowest price they have for those now.
>Phil>
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #24799 07-10-88 08:36 (Read 154 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: TOM GALLETLY (Rcvd)
subject: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #24791
Tom,
What version of DOS are you using and what parameters? And apparently most
importantly what machine, XT class or AT class?
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #24800 07-10-88 08:48 (Read 177 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 3.5" 1.4MEG FMAT Reply to #24792
>Phil>,
They typically quote absurd lead times on delivery, at least in my
experience with them. That is to prevent you from becoming excited when you
don't get your order in 3 days and to make them look like heroes when you
get them in less than the quoted time. That was with 5.25 in disks. With
the 3.5 inchers, they USUALLY deliver in less time but sometimes do
approach the quoted time. The 3.5 in disk demand apparently exceeds supply
on a spot basis nearly as badly as is the case with drams.
Four dollars is still an obscene price for a 3.5 in disk, regardless of
demand. But maybe that Mac is good for something afterall! It is causing
the manufacturers to upgrade their "standard" HD disks to hold a meg on
each side and we all will benefit from that in the short run. Check the 3.5
in boxes at Target or K-Mart or one of the other fine computer stores (:-)
, most say 135 tpi and 1 meg per side. And on sale the price ain't bad. Now
to get their sales to correspond with my running out!
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #24802 07-10-88 17:24 (Read 157 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: ALL
subject: 1.44M FORMAT
cc: UWM COMPUTING
For anyone who may care, I have found another small assist in formatting
3.5 inch disks on an XT class machine. Dos 3.3 format absolutely would not
format a 720k disk when the drive was specified in config.sys as a 1.44m
drive andthe converse was also true. I then loaded the ever popular
"hspdver.com" thing Bob furnishes(or used to) with the PC Sprint boards. My
drive now performs flawlessly in every respect. PC Tools "N" option now
works on both formats as well. I have NO IDES why, but I'll not look a gift
horse in the mouth. Hope this may make life easier for someone.
The situation it cleared up was the "track zero bad or invalid media" error
which I formerly saw whenever I tried to format a disk in the non-specified
disk format.
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #24814 07-11-88 05:38 (Read 157 times)
from: TOM GALLETLY
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #24799
Steve;
I am using DOS 3.3. My machine is the old standard IBM PC, 5 slot
motherboard.The parameters that I put in are Device=Driver.sys /D:1 /S:18
/F:7. I have tried different parameters, but nothing seems to work. I
even tried it using FMTMAS.ARC and it still didn't work. Any ideas? Tom
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #24816 07-11-88 06:23 (Read 162 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: TOM GALLETLY (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #24814
Tom,
I assume you have a controller that is able to do the job. If not, there is
no hope, I guess. But if you do, I'm really stumped, because that is what I
use. Oh, wait. The parameters you listed I put in config.sys as DRIVPARM=
rather than DRIVER.SYS. A kind soul whose name escapes me at the moment
did the necessary snooping to locate and activate the drivparm code in
DOS3.3 an uploaded it in the Mahoney collection. It works slick and
eliminates one device driver from your config file. You might want to give
it a try. The procedure is really quite simple. Only 1 or 2 bytes to
change, as I recall. Other than those two, I can't imagine why it won't
work.
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #24899 07-14-88 19:43 (Read 154 times)
from: TOM GALLETLY
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #24816
I am using an IBM controller, so there shouldn't be any problem there.
What is the name of the file that has the DRIVEPRAM= in it? I will download
it and try that. I also gave a couple of discs to a friend with a PS2 Mod
60 to see if he can format the discs on the chance that I might have gotten
a bad box of diskettes. Thanks. Tom
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #24902 07-14-88 20:49 (Read 161 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: TOM GALLETLY (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #24899
Tom,
If I recall correctly it is called "DRIVPRM3.ARC". It is a text file that
explains the patch Works great. Be sure to follow the directions EXACTLY,
including formatting a system disk from your original DOS disk. Your friend
may not be able to format the disks either, unless they are the 'gold
plated' HD or QD or whatever disks (the ones with two holes in them). But
on my machine the garden variety 135 tpi disks work just fine at either
density. Let me know if you can pull it off.
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #24904 07-14-88 21:40 (Read 160 times)
from: JEFFREY HOWELL
to: TOM GALLETLY (Rcvd)
subject: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #24791
TOM,
How's things going? Your controller must support 96tpi in able to format
1.44M diskette. If the controller you are using is an IBM controller for a
PC or XT, it is not capable of formatting more than 40 tracks per side of
the diskette, not the 80 tracks you will need to format a 1.44M diskette
(and for that matter, a 1.2M 5 1/4") You may need to purchase an after
market controller card, which used in conjunction with DRIVEPRAM will
enable you to format the diskette.
. JEFFREY HOWELL
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #24919 07-15-88 22:20 (Read 153 times)
from: TOM GALLETLY
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #24902
OK. Thanks. I will download DRIVPRAM3 and see if that helps. I'll let
you know after I try it. Tom
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #24921 07-15-88 22:30 (Read 156 times)
from: TOM GALLETLY
to: JEFFREY HOWELL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #24904
That doesn't make any sense. I had a 720K 3 1\2 disc in it that formats at
80 tracks and never had any problems with it. In fact, I can still format
720K discs. As far as I can tell, the only difference between the 720 and
the 1.4 M is that the 1.4M has 80 tracts with 18 sectors per track versus
the 720 at 80 tracts with 9 sectors per track. Can you think of anything
else that might cause the problem? Tom
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #24922 07-15-88 22:46 (Read 156 times)
from: JEFFREY HOWELL
to: TOM GALLETLY (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #24921
cc: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
cc: TOM PETERS
TOM,
Leave a message for Steve McCrystal, including drive type, jumper settings
on the drive, controller type, computer type, and Bios type and revision.
Steve has become somewhat of an expert on 3.5" drives since he is trying to
get one to work also. You might also carbon copy the message to Tom
Peters, as he has had quite a lot of experience along these lines.
If you'll leave the message in the Hardware Conference, you will probably
stand a better chance of finding someone with the answers. Good Luck!
. JEFFREY
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25004 07-20-88 22:25 (Read 168 times)
from: TOM GALLETLY
to: JEFFREY HOWELL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #24922
cc: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
cc: TOM PETERS
The machine that I am trying to get the 3.5 drive to work on is an original
true blue PC. It has the original bois that came with the PC. I am using
the original controller for the floppy drives. The 3.5 is also an IBM
1.4 Meg drive. I replaced an IBM 720K drive with the 1.4 Meg. I had no
trouble formatting or using the 720K. In fact, I can still format and use
720 K disks in the 1.4 Meg. drive. So far, nothing I have tried, has
allowed me to format a 1.4 Meg. disk. Any help will be appreciated.
Tom
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25005 07-20-88 22:33 (Read 165 times)
from: TOM GALLETLY
to: JEFFREY HOWELL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #24922
Just one other thing, when I sent my last message I noticed that you
are from Mission, TX. Are you the Jeff Howell from Howell Furniture, in
Mission? If you are, then we know each other, as I only moved out of the
Valley about six months ago. I was from Weslaco, worked for IBM.
Tom
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25007 07-20-88 22:59 (Read 166 times)
from: JEFFREY HOWELL
to: TOM GALLETLY (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25004
TOM,
. I can't help you any further than to tell you that I don't think that
the original IBM floppy controller it capable of working with a 1.44 Meg.
drive at 1.44 - I think the best that combination can do is 720K, but, the
two people you have Carbon copied to should be able to help you out. Glad
to see you on the board. How is Dallas, are you pleased with the move?
Sure gonna miss having a local expert down here in the Valley.
. JEFFREY
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25008 07-20-88 23:03 (Read 168 times)
from: JEFFREY HOWELL
to: TOM GALLETLY (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25005
Uh...I figured it out...(see the message before this one) :-)
I KNEW there could only be one Tom Galletly in Texas. I wasn't
sure if you had moved yet, as you were just making up your mind
the last time we talked. (Has it REALLY been >6 months...boy,
time DOES fly)
JEFFREY
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25013 07-21-88 06:27 (Read 167 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: TOM GALLETLY (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25004
Tom,
Now that I have all the facts, I can sadly say that it won't work. The
original controller just won't do the job. Believe me, I've tried! You have
no idea how many controllers there are that will not format a 1.4M disk,
including several that are advertised as doing it. There are 2 that I KNOW
will, one is made by DTK and can be purchased from QIC (Computer Shopper,
etc.) and the other is the WD-1002A-FOX from Western Digital. Note the "A"
in the part number, it IS significant. The 1002-FOX will not work. Once you
have a compatible controller, the rest is fairly easy. Set DRIVER.SYS for
form factor 7, 80 tracks, 18 sectors and let it fly. You will probably need
the very expensive QD disks (or whatever they are calling them now), unless
you can defeat the media select sensor in the drive. I am working on a fix
for that now but haven't got it right. It's hard because my drive doesn't
have one.
Hope this helps. Tom Peters amy have some additional input.
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25044 07-22-88 21:45 (Read 165 times)
from: TOM GALLETLY
to: JEFFREY HOWELL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25008
Yup. Actually its been 8 months since I moved to Dallas. I love it up.
They have computer flea markets here, where you can pick up some pretty
good buys. I just talked to another guy up here and he told me the same
thing. That the IBM PC controller would not support the 1.4 Meg. I guess
that I'll have to buy a different controller. If you get up to Dallas, give
me a call. Tom
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25045 07-22-88 21:53 (Read 163 times)
from: TOM GALLETLY
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25013
Steve;
Thanks for the info. on the controller. I just got the same answer locally
today. The difference is that they didn't know what controller I could
replace it with. When you figure out how to use the 720 k in the 1.4 I'd
sure like to know. The cost of the 1.4 is unreasonable. Thanks again.
Tom
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25050 07-23-88 07:48 (Read 168 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: TOM GALLETLY (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25045
Tom,
The problem with the DS/DD disks is with the drive, not with the disks
themselves. I use only DS/DD disks in mine with complete success. My first
suggestion would be to disable the sensor on the right side of the drive.
My drive doesn't even have one and it works well. This density select thing
is the big hangup with the drives in clones. Seems like every drive and
controller manufacturer has their own idea of what it should do or how it
should be done. That is why WD had to come out with a new board to support
them and a new bios as well. Trying to allow for all the possibilities must
have been a real nightmare. Will let you know if I can come up with a
simpler solution for the problem.
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25071 07-23-88 22:54 (Read 166 times)
from: ERIK DUFEK
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25050
So I finally learn why my DD 3 1/2 floppies won't format at work to 1.44
but they will at home. Not sure the boss would be too pleased with my
tearing apart his new toy. When the salesman came by to drop off some
stuff off backorder for the new system I asked him why the set-up wouldn't
read my PS2 formatted floppies. His answer was that the PS2 writes
something to the first track and there after no other type of computer
could reformat it. He claims to fix a similar problem on another customers
machine he took an industrial strength magnet to the floppy to erase
everything and then the drive successfully formatted the floppy to 1.4M
What is it about the floppy that the drive detects? Is there a notch or
something? I also would be interested if you come up with something to
bypass the drive. Bypass the BIOS somehow?
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25073 07-23-88 23:39 (Read 169 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: ERIK DUFEK (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25071
Erik,
Some of that stuff about what a PS2 does to the disks is bogus and the rest
is pure bs! Although the fix the salesman used is guaranteed to work! But I
made a quick $5.00 off of a guy that told me his PS2 formatted 1.44 meg
disks could not be formatted to 720 ever again. I put them in my drive and
formatted them to 720k while his mouth fell open. Then to prove it had
worked, I filled it up with 720k of files, and then de-arced the last file
copied. The things will work IF the drive is set right, and if it works
correctly with the controller you are using.
The drive senses the extra hole in the disk opposite the write protect
hole. It is the same shape and size but has no shutter. There is a small
plastic post in the drive that must fit in the hole when the disk is
inserted. If it does not, the disk is considered to be a 720k disk and the
controller will not allow it to be formatted to 1.44m, which is the case
when the disk has no hole. Now, if the drive has no switch... or it doesn't
work... or if it has a piece of tape over it... the list goes on and on.
The problem could also probably be attacked at the controller but I have no
way to test it. And it would require someone with the skill to disassemble
the cable and remove the contact for pin #2, the density select pin (or RWC
as it is also known) and reassemble the cable. I hope to be able to get a
drive to test it on soon. The other, far less appealing, solution is to put
in a switch in the drive front panel to do the same thing. Think your boss
would go for that? Will keep you informed when I'm able to get some more
testing done. But after 8 months of fooling with it, I'm just glad mine
works. You have no idea how many outfits are selling controllers that are
SUPPOSED to operate 1.44m drives!
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25085 07-24-88 13:27 (Read 162 times)
from: UWM COMPUTING
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 3.5" 1.4MEG FMAT Reply to #24780
Steve- Thanks a lot, buddy. Appreciate the reply despite my chosen
temporary anonymity. You can call me Mark by the way. I'll try your tip
and let you know how it works on my system. Thx again. Mark.
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25104 07-24-88 21:46 (Read 165 times)
from: ERIK DUFEK
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25073
I don't think the boss would go for any modification (even software) at
this point. As to the salesman, the magnet wouldn't work, the reason is
because the disks I have don't have the density select hole. So no matter
what I did they won't format to 1.4M on his machine. What surprises me is
that they can be formatted to 1.44 on a PS/2 but the clone refuses to even
read the floppy, much less write to it. Thanks for the info. It all makes
sense now. Except for the PS/2. Is there something wrong that it doesn't
detect the media? I like the fact that DD floppies can be formatted to
1.44M but why would IBM allow that feature and the clones won't? Do all
PS/2's do this or should I have the drive checked out?
One other thing I find interesting on the clone is that it won't allow a
HD floppy to be formatted to 720K. I wonder why it would care. It's like
using an AT to balance your checkbook. A little overkill but it's your
wallet.
If the clone would have just said you have a DD floppy -- I'll only
format it to 720K it wouldn't have bothered me as much. But to finally get
it to format I had to add the 9 sectors switch. What's the sense of having
a media detect if the computer won't make use of it other than to refuse to
operate unless the right parameters are entered.
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25114 07-25-88 06:34 (Read 161 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: ERIK DUFEK (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25104
Erik,
Now that is a new one on me! Normally I am told that the PS/2 will only
format HD disks at 1.4meg. And I can understand IBM wanting and forcing it
to be that way. All of my testing so far has been done on a clone, and the
whole thing works properly every time. DOS format even works as does
'Formatmaster', at either density, using the same DD disks. In fact. last
night I alternately formatted the SAME DD disk at 720k and then at 1.4m
about 5 times each, over and over. Just left it in the drive and repeatedly
formatted it. What I would suggest is that you get ONE genuine HD disk and
see if it works. Early on, that is how I found that I had a real problem
with the controller, it would not format the real thing to 1.4m either.
There is a valid reason why the drive should not format a HD disk to 720k,
just as 1.2meg floppies won't format to 360k. Would be to much to explain
it now, but the reason is valid.
Your final point is also valid. I don't know why you must use the 9 sector
switch, but I have to since there is no density select on my drive. Perhaps
that will be the only difference. Then the cable route is definitely the
way to go.
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25119 07-25-88 08:31 (Read 159 times)
from: STEVE SHATTUCK
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25050
Steve,
I believe that any manufacturer, disk drive or clone, that produces
hardware that defeats security and control features like the "hole sensor"
on a HD floppy disk, should be strung up by his toes in the hot sun. It
is acceptable for a hacker to disable the feature, but not disabled "out-
of-the-box." (Usually the save costs!).
NCR used to sell a tape drive on their mainframe that ignored the write
protect ring on a reel of tape, because the tape drive had a "write
protect" button. Unfortunately, this was not mentioned in the
documentation. The same tape drive IGNORED all parity errors.
Features, such as the HD hole, have a purpose and should work in a
standard manner across all machines!
Just my opinion!!!!!!! Steve
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25122 07-25-88 11:48 (Read 162 times)
from: TOM PETERS
to: TOM GALLETLY (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25004
We have been through this, you might want to look up the many old
messages in this conference.
But just to refresh: Your 1.44mb WILL NEVER WORK WITH THE CONTROLLER YOU
HAVE. EVER. PERIOD. What I'm saying is that it is just not possible to use
a 5.25" floppy controller designed for 360k disks on a 1.44mb drive. That
controller uses a transfer rate much to slow for 1.2mb 5.25" and 1.44mb
3.5" media. Whoever sold you that drive ripped you off, unless you got a
controller card with it. We sell a 3.5" kit that INCLUDES a card & cables,
and I might be able to get you a controller, but integrating them could be
difficult. What brand is the drive? We use Toshiba. It comes with a
controller that can run 360k, 720k, 1.2m, and 1.44m drives in many
combinations.
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25135 07-25-88 20:42 (Read 160 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: STEVE SHATTUCK (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25119
Steve,
Gee, that seems a little extreme! But I agree wholeheartedly with your
assessment of the situation. The drive I have does NOT have the switch
disabled, there never was one nor a place to put one! Later versions of the
drive do have the switch, but also won't work in most of the clones we have
tried them in. So, quite frankly, if the lack of a switch allows my drive
to work and saves me $3.00 per disk in media costs with COMPLETE
reliability, I'm quite glad it is not there. This drive looks like it was
produced before the standard was set because there are two sensors in the
drive but the second one is about 5/16 in. to the right of the write
protect sensor. It doesn't seem to have any function at all but I haven't
traced the lines to see where they lead. I even drilled a matching hole in
two disks to try it out and found no noticeable difference. And a
multi-hour endurance test on several brands of DS/DD disks produced no
errors. And I can format a disk at 1.44m and then re-format the same disk
at 720k repeatedly. I'm convinced.
One more point. I'm not advocating that anyone try to emulate my method. I
am only attempting to explain what I did to make MY system work. What
they/you do with theirs/yours is still up to them/you to decide.
Thanks for your opinion. It is always welcomed AND valued by me.
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25140 07-25-88 22:23 (Read 158 times)
from: ERIK DUFEK
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25114
Yes, I finally got both type disks and did a comparison. The clone drive
is good. It will format either type but you *must* use the switch for low
density disks. The only option I didn't try is formatting a HD to 720K on
the PS/2. It never occurred to me to try it.
You say that there is a valid reason why a drive will not format a HD to
720K. I can't think of why. Even though you may not want to go into it
here could you direct me to a source s I can find out on my own?
Otherwise I'd like to thank you for your time. This has been a very
informative thread. At least this particular problem won't bug me again.
Erik
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25207 07-27-88 23:04 (Read 161 times)
from: STEVE SHATTUCK
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25135
Steve,
Not extreme, just standard. We have standards so the masses (read
those not on the BBS), who cannot or do not know the difference, should not
have to guess if the density sensor is present or not. For those of us who
are skilled enough to defeat the feature AND SMART ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND THE
RISKS, go ahead and save the money.
However, I just spent the day with someone playing the density format
game, and he is trying to recover 4 months of work.
Steve
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25224 07-28-88 06:20 (Read 158 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: STEVE SHATTUCK (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25207
Steve,
That point is well taken. I must admit that protecting your work is the
most important thing. I gave similar advice to someone in the hardware
conference who was contemplating using a ST-4096 with an RLL controller.
If, as in your case, the result is the loss of 4 months of work the extra
cost of the HD media becomes fairly insignificant.
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25241 07-28-88 21:22 (Read 152 times)
from: TOM GALLETLY
to: TOM PETERS (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25122
The drive is an IBM 1.4M drive. I just ordered a controller from QIC
Research Inc. in San Jose. I should be getting it in about a week.
When I get it in I will let you know how everything works out. Thanks.
Tom
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25248 07-28-88 22:55 (Read 156 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: TOM GALLETLY (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25241
Tom, That one should do it!. It is the one I use and it works very well.
That and DOS 3.3 should get you up in record time.
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25254 07-29-88 00:41 (Read 160 times)
from: ROB GREENBERG
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25224
Steve,
I tried experimentally formatting my 4096 RLL to see what it would do.
I got the hint when roughly 1/3 of the disk was locked out during the
formatting process. I guess the 40XX series is pretty miserable when it
comes to RLL formatting. Rob
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25256 07-29-88 02:37 (Read 158 times)
from: JIM DUNNIGAN
to: ROB GREENBERG (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25254
The 4096 is supposed to work quite well with the Perstor ARLL
controller (you get over 150 MB). A number of BBSs use that setup
and have been going over a year with it. Can't understand why 4096
would choke on RLL.
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25316 07-31-88 21:46 (Read 142 times)
from: ROB GREENBERG
to: JIM DUNNIGAN (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.4 MEG DISCS Reply to #25256
There was a decent discussion as to why ARLL would work but RLL wouldn't on
Sparta BBS. I believe it was from one of the people at Perstor.
I opted to simply buy a bigger hard disk because the Perstor boards are
expensive and I don't trust them (the company and the board, to some
degree). Rob
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25348 08-01-88 17:41 (Read 132 times)
from: UWM COMPUTING
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: 1.44 MB DISKS
Steve-
received your boot disk today, and tried it. I booted with it in A:
and tried formatting a DD 3.5" disk as HD in the B: drive. To no
avail, I'm afraid...
Oh, well, I guess either I got a cheap drive or the diskettes I'm trying
aren't the right type (Tandy and Fuji). Thanx for the effort, tho'...
Perhaps I should mention that when I boot up, the system asks me if I want
to run SETUP (Y/N). When I run setup, I tell the system I have a 1.44 MB
disk drive in B:. Therefore, all FORMAT commands default to formatting a
1.44 MB (without parameters). I have to specify the parameters explicitly
when I format the 720s. Thanx again.
- "MARK X"
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25355 08-01-88 20:00 (Read 132 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd)
subject: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25348
Mark,
Never did get the make of your drive, that may be the problem. Try to get
someone to tell how the thing must be set up. Also, never knew that the
machine was an AT clone. I NEVER had a problem using a my (or any other one
I tried) on an AT class machine. So that is a new one to me. Perhaps the
controller won't handle it, who knows?
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25362 08-01-88 22:13 (Read 137 times)
from: UWM COMPUTING
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25355
Hm....
Thanx again for the help. Don't know the type of drive. Think it's a
Mitsubishi, not sure. Will call the mail order house and check it out.
Kind of a cranky drive, probably not the best quality. Sometimes have to
pull out disk and reinsert for it to work, get the track 0 bad message once
in awhile for no reason... O well chalk one up to experience...
-Mark S.
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25363 08-01-88 22:23 (Read 138 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25362
Mark,
Hmmm, indeed! That is what I have, and it has worked in 4 different AT
clones w/o any problems. Just plug it in, run setup, and ge with it. It
also works now in several XT class machines as long as I use MY controller.
And the mounting screw holes are now 1/4 x20 UNC, it's been in and out so
many times. I'm thinking of using velcro! (not really). Strange....
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25373 08-02-88 07:58 (Read 139 times)
from: UWM COMPUTING
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25363
Harumph...
Would it perhaps help if I run setup telling the computer that
it's a regular density 3.5" drive and then use the FORMAT parms
to format as 1.44mb or wouldn't this make any difference?
Perhaps it's just a cheap-o drive, I guess with mail order you
sometimes get strange and wondrous surprises....
Thx again - I'll get back to you with drive type if you're still
feeling ultra-helpful.
-"MARK X"
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25383 08-02-88 17:52 (Read 137 times)
from: JOHN REDFORD
to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd)
subject: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25348
Are you using the new (and super expensive) 3.5 diskettes with the
"2mb"hole opposite the write protect hole?? Most of the 3.5 " disk mfgrs
have now put in a switch to detect the "hi-density" diskettes, and they
will not read/write/format a 1.44 without this hole. So far, the 3.5"
drives in the PS-2 series are the only ones WITHOUT the sensor switch. (I
guess the diskette mfgrs didn't get to em in time to tell em how much more
money they could make with the 2mb diskettes).
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25388 08-02-88 19:28 (Read 140 times)
from: UWM COMPUTING
to: JOHN REDFORD (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25383
John-
I guess I may not be understanding you correctly. Yes, the disks I
have have a hole, evident when the disk is set for "write protect".
But there is no hole on any other corner of the disk if that's what
you mean... They are just the standard Fuji DS DD 3.5" disks...
Hmmm... Thanks for the help, tho'.
-Mark X
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25389 08-02-88 19:31 (Read 137 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25373
Mark,
Can't hurt to try it. No damage can be done that I know of. It might help
to know the drive make and model and also whether it has two sensors in it.
They usually can be seen from outside w/o any trouble. I mentioned it
before. Then we may have to go back underground so that I do not incur the
wrath of those who don't hold with the axiom I learned way back in "Troubl-
eshooting 101". That is "if you can make it work, chances are it is fixed
or at least you will know what is broken". I always thought it a good idea.
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25390 08-02-88 19:43 (Read 140 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25388
Mark,
I think (know) what John is saying is did you try a disk that DOES have two
holes in it? If so, did it also fail to format at 1.4m? I thought we had
also established that you had tried it, but maybe not. If you do try it and
it works, that will eliminate any need for anymore TRYING. Then we KNOW
what the problem is. If the drive will not format one of those gold plated
disks, then it is back to square one. If the stuff I sent you won't do it
and a genuine HD disk won't work, we have a serious problem. Perhaps prayer
would help...
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25414 08-03-88 07:51 (Read 142 times)
from: UWM COMPUTING
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25389
Hmmm (again)... I think I need a better definition of "sensors"... are they
on the top or bottom looking in? BTW, I teach that same class evenings at
MATC. -MARK X
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25415 08-03-88 07:55 (Read 145 times)
from: UWM COMPUTING
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25390
Our father who art in Heaven... No, OF COURSE I know that the drive works
with the genuine HD 3.5" disks! GEEESHH!!!!
This, at least, I tested. It's just the DD ones that refuse to format
in the 1.44 MB format (are we backtracking here?). Thanks anyway!
-MARK X
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25419 08-03-88 19:59 (Read 136 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25414
Mark,
They are small pins that will align exactly with the holes in the disk WHEN
THE DISK IS SEATED in the drive. Usually they are small (about .045 diam.)
plastic pins which point up from the bottom of the slot toward the sky.
They are approximately 3/8 inch inside the front face of the drive front
plate. There should be at least ONE on the left side for write protect.
There may or may not be one on the right side. They may also appear as
optic sensors (IR emitter/detector pair) but I have not personally seen one
like that. Hope this clears it up.
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25420 08-03-88 20:05 (Read 130 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25415
Mark,
I really didn't remember, but I thought we had established that early on.
John must have missed the earlier dialogue. Sure glad that is settled! But
I am starting to get a bad feeling about this. I finally found one disk of
the DD variety that wouldn't format to 1.44m in my drive, that after doing
it successfully on 150 disks from a variety of sources and manufacturers.
Just used it for a 720k and it worked fine. But your drive may be a "horse
of a different color". Ain't it fun?
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25423 08-03-88 20:16 (Read 133 times)
from: WILLIAM BIRD
to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25415
If you can format a HD to 1.4meg but not a DD then the drive is looking for
the second hole in the disk case, Steve's sensors of course do that. What
kind of a drive do you have? If it is a Toshiba drive that feature can
probably be disabled by changing the jumpers on the drive. If have done
that with the Toshiba drive that I have on my XT. If you do that, you may
have trouble formatting disks to 720K. Steve apparently has a fix for
that. If I can help, let me know. Have a good day....Bill
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25426 08-03-88 20:28 (Read 133 times)
from: UWM COMPUTING
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25419
Steve-
Thanks for the vivid description!
Yes, there are two pins on the left side and one on the right side.
Does this help?
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25427 08-03-88 20:32 (Read 132 times)
from: UWM COMPUTING
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25420
Steve-
Yes, it could be that I have a cheapo drive. Could you possibly send
me some that you formatted as HD- I'll send you what you paid for them
or more for the trouble! I'm sure that once formatted my drive would
recognize them and it would save me some money!
Mark X
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25428 08-03-88 20:34 (Read 134 times)
from: UWM COMPUTING
to: WILLIAM BIRD (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25423
Yes, Bill - HELP! I think I have a mitsubishi drive w/2 pins on the left
and one on the right - any suggestions?
Mark X
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25434 08-03-88 23:06 (Read 134 times)
from: ERIK DUFEK
to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25415
I have been keeping an eye on this thread since a similar problem
happened to me. I could format DD disks on a PS/2 but the clone couldn't
(wouldn't?) read them. I couldn't format the DD disks to high density on a
clone either. They WOULD format correctly with the DD switch though. The
HD disks refuse to format to DD even with the switch. Then I discovered
the difference in the disks. At this point I'm not sure if the sensor is a
pin or light. But the little square is marked on the disk. If I could
discover a way to cut the square out easily I'd be able to use the disks on
the clone at HD. Or I could find out whether the sensor sends a high or
low to the controller and disable it at HD always. At this point it's not
worth the effort. I'm only using the clone to transfer files from 5 1/4 to
3 1/2. I'll use them for the intended density for now. I really didn't
want to trace this thread back to see what the current question is. Hope
some of this helped. If not you'll have to state your question again.
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25440 08-04-88 06:14 (Read 132 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25426
Sure does! Apparently the reason the drive will not format to 1.4M on a DD
disk is that right hand high density detector. Now we must attempt to do
the dirtiest of deeds. Somehow, for a test, you must disable of otherwise
circumvent the switch. Still interested?
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25441 08-04-88 06:23 (Read 132 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25427
Mark,
Not a cheapo drive, but one that is built the way it REALLY should be.
This, of course depends on whether or not you are trying to format DD disks
as HD. If you are then the point is debatable. I,m quite sure that once
formatted the disks will work quite well, at least that is the way I did it
for some time. How many disks are we talking about, several or a box or
what?
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25442 08-04-88 06:36 (Read 132 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: ERIK DUFEK (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25434
Erik,
You are right, the proper location is marked on the disk. And I must agree,
that method is not worth the effort. I did it to two DD disks early on and
would hate to do it to, say 50 disks for a backup! But it should help in
Marks case. Might be a way to tell what was up. Mark, should you try it, on
the Fuji disks you want a hole in the faint square on the right, not the
rectangle with the number in it. About 4mm diam or 1/8" should do it. Just
do one, that way you can find out if the drive WILL format DD to HD. Then
underground.
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25445 08-04-88 08:02 (Read 134 times)
from: AL HANSEN
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25440
Steve,
If you or some else has some time, capture this thread on 1.44 meg
diskettes, and upload it. It sure will save people a lot of time in the
future, just like the HD threads have. Maybe a "best of" would be in
order! AL --
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25447 08-04-88 12:16 (Read 133 times)
from: UWM COMPUTING
to: ERIK DUFEK (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25434
ERIK-
Thanks. Other users have replied with similar solutions.
Mark
I'll keep trying....!
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25448 08-04-88 12:18 (Read 134 times)
from: UWM COMPUTING
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25440
YES Steve, let's give it a shot! I've always been the experimental type
(to the dread of my various bosses in the past)... What next?
Mark X
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25449 08-04-88 12:20 (Read 135 times)
from: UWM COMPUTING
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25441
Steve-
How 'bout sending one for starters to see if I can recognize it as HD.
If so, then I may be interested to buy 10 or 20 from you... In the mean-
while, let's see if we can disable the switch!!! -Keep in touch! -MARK X
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25455 08-04-88 19:40 (Read 137 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: AL HANSEN (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25445
Al,
Not a bad idea I guess. But most of what we are discussing here could best
be described as "experimental". I would hate for anyone to think I was
advocating the use of this stuff as a general rule or for critical data, as
some apparently have. I am merely trying to help a guy or two get a setup
that will work, not advocating the procedure as a way to set up a business
system. If my livelihood depended on the data I had stored in this manner,
I would probably not use it myself. But it has proven reliable for me and
for my uses and on my "fun" machine. If there was any other interest in the
info and it could be accepted the way it was intended, it would not bother
me. But considering the nature of this system and the scope of it's users,
I think it might not be too smart.
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25458 08-04-88 19:59 (Read 136 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25448
Mark,
I enjoy it myself. Did you install the drive in the machine yourself? Can
you get it out? Are you up to disassembling it? The easiest way to de-
activate the switch is to defeat it's effect on the controller by
insulating pin 2's contact from the controller board by insulating it
with tape, VERY carefully. If it works that way, you can later dismantle
the connector and pull the pin out. Another way is to disconnect the switch
internally by removing one of the wires from it and insulating the loose
wire. This is not a real fun thing to do, since everything is so small and
tightly packed in the drive. But it does work. It as well as the earlier
method may also require strapping a line low, depending on the controller
and how it works. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much
standardization among the drive makers regarding what the density select
pin does. This is what I was told required WD to design an all new
controller (WD-1002A-FOX) that would work right with whatever drive you
chose to attach to it. This makes "experiment" the key word here. It is
about the only way you will be able to tell when you have it right. I can
tell you where to look, but you will need to do the looking. And a few
jumper wires and test clips would help a great deal.
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25459 08-04-88 20:05 (Read 140 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25449
Mark,
Picked up my mail earlier today and saw this one. I formatted a disk to
1.4, copied it full, erased the files, and did a DISKSCAN on it. The disk
is in the mail, tomorrow. It is a working disk, so it should function. But
the media descriptor will be read by DOS and should allow read/write to it
with no problem (I HOPE!). Mine would work with DOS 3.2 as I recall and it
lists the format as "other". But this is after it was formatted. That is
the real trick. Bet you thought so too, huh?
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25467 08-04-88 22:01 (Read 142 times)
from: UWM COMPUTING
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25459
Media descriptor? DOS listing of format as "other"? Sorry, kemosabe,
you're dealing with strictly a high level programmer and APPLICATION
SOFTWARE-totin' dude! Your terms are slightly alien to me, sorry.
Also, I don't know if I have the guts to actually DISMANTLE the 3.5" disk
drive! I was hoping you had some sort of neat-o DEBUG fix or something....
Could you supply a little more (layman-level) info on the process so I know
if I have enough brainpower to act as an imposter in brain surgery?
_MARK X_
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25480 08-05-88 21:52 (Read 138 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25467
Mark,
You have my neato DEBUG solution and it doesn't seem to work! But the
controller pin trick might work. Simply remove the cable connector drom the
1.4M drive and insulate the #2 trace with a piece of tape. I used Scotch
33+ electrical tape since it will take a great deal of heat to make it
soften or the adhesive squeeze out. The tape must be narrow, about 3/32
wide. Lay it on the copper trace very carefully so as not to have it
insulate anything but the #2 trace. Then very carefully reinstall the
cable. Then test it. If this works, you can remove the tape, clean any
adhesive off of the connector board with pure alcohol, lighter fluid, etc.
and take the #2 contact out of the connector as a final solution. More
elegant and less dangerous than the tape for the long haul, and easier to
reverse than trace cutting. BTW, the traces should be labeled on the drive
connector somehow. Normally at least pins 1 and 34 will be marked, some-
times others. Pin #2 will be the one on the slotted end of the connector
that is not #1! Simple, huh? Give this a try and let me know what happens.
This could take forever, but it is interesting! BTW, the disk I formatted
for you is in the mail, should arrive on Sat. Let me know on that one too.
-[Steve]-
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25490 08-06-88 10:04 (Read 126 times)
from: UWM COMPUTING
to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25480
Thanks Steve. I'll give it a try and look for your disk! BTW (to coin one
of your acronyms), do you happen to know anything about a problem with fast
clock speeds on '286 machines (e.g 12Mz w/0 wait or faster) having problems
with the internal clock on the machine? Overall, I'm losing about 1/2 hour
every couple weeks and occasionally, after using certain applications, the
clock starts going berserk and whipping thru time VERY FAST. I'm going to
try replacing the battery (and do the work you suggested on the 3.5" drive)
today, and I'll let you know if THAT works too. Whew!
Mark X
conf: IBM PC GENERAL FORUM #25501 08-06-88 19:57 (Read 131 times)
from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL
to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd)
subject: R: R: 1.44 MB DISKS Reply to #25490
Mark,
Sorry, I don't know a thing about what may be causing your clock problems.
But I'm sure someone here will.
-[Steve]-